Where are Witnesses to the 15 Min Chokehold and Other Videos? Man who Only Filmed the Last 3 Min says He Heard Jordan Neely's Jacket Zipper hit the floor on Crowded Train but Didn't See Incident Start
/LIKE HE SAID ‘TRAIN WAS CROWDED’ and IT ONLY WENT to 1 STOP’ DURING THE 15 MINUTE CHOKEHOLD. Thus far, besides a 3 minute video, apparently all the information about the incident is actually coming from the NYPD. The NYPD is relaying hearsay from unnamed witnesses to the media who parrot the information to the viewing public. However, actual first hand witness accounts from persons who were present before and during the so-called 15 minute chokehold have not been presented by the media. All media info so far is just “according to police” and “witnesses reportedly said.” Wikipedia for instance explains,
According to police, (unknown) witnesses said Neely was acting in a "hostile and erratic" manner, and yelled that he was hungry and thirsty, [4] and that he would hurt anyone on the train.[5] Freelance journalist and witness Juan Alberto Vázquez (who recorded the incident, more on him later), said that Neely did not physically attack anyone,[6] but other (unknown) witnesses reported (to the police) Neely throwing trash at passengers.[7] Penny approached Neely from behind, placing him in a chokehold until Neely was unconscious. [8] According to Vázquez, the chokehold lasted for 15 minutes, three minutes of which are recorded.[9][10][11] Neely died on the subway car's floor.[14]
Two other “eyewitnesses” spoke to Gothamist but ‘by the time they saw Neely, they said he wasn’t moving. [MORE]
Without first hand media accounts we are unable to independently assess the demeanor, appearance, tone of voice, credibility and veracity of the witnesses. We also cannot corroborate details given by the unknown witnesses because their statements are usually summarized by the media or cops. Instead we must trust the police - who lie often.
According to the NYPD the incident started inside a subway train car on the way from the ‘Second Ave‘ station to the Broadway–Lafayette Street station. It’s not clear what time the train arrived but by the time the video starts only 6 or 7 people are on the train. Vázquez says everyone got off when it got to the station. Apparently, no one on the crowded train called the police when the “white marine” began to apply the chokehold on the train (before it got to the station). No one on the crowded train filmed any of the first 12 minutes of the incident. Unless the train was full of old, white people, it is not probable that young or Black passengers would not have recorded it.
Although the NYPD explains that there are no cameras on the trains, there are cameras on the subway platforms in all NYC subway stations and specifically, there are cameras on the platform at the Broadway–Lafayette Street station. [MORE] and [MORE]. Said cameras probably would have captured excited passengers exiting the train and shown police entering the train. Cameras from the Second Ave station may have shown Neely enter the train. No such video has been provided by media or cops. Such video is not relevant to the elements of the crime here but would tend to show that this incident actually occurred.
In the interview below of Juan Alberto Vázquez, the man who filmed the video of the incident, he said could not see the “white marine” initially put Neely in a chokehold because the train was too crowded. He stated that the marine came from behind Neely and the next thing he could see was that he was in a chokehold. Vázquez claims that when the train arrived he got out and tried to talk to the conductor and then went back onto the train and that’s when he started to film.
BW is not asserting that this is a false flag but so far it shares some false flaggot characteristics - particularly with the lack of video despite the presence of a large number of people, lack of first hand witness accounts, reliance on police accounts, instant biographies and mini-media stories/photos created for the villain “white marine” and the victim “homeless Black man” ‘who impersonated Michael Jackson.’ Also, not so sure “a 15 minute chokehold” is actually possible. Some people become unconscious in three to four seconds. If the flow continues to be restricted, a person can die within three to four minutes. [MORE] Here, a chokehold by a so-called Marine, evidently trained in strangulation and combat methods, was applied for 15 minutes to an unwell, frail, weak,“homeless Black man” who couldn’t have weighed more than 150 lbs. Sounds like it might be some bullshit. Like false flags, while glossing over details the Dependent media and police are only focusing on the emotive facts; protests from lathered-up liberals and rants by lathered-up racist suspect conservatives. One should be cautious especially where police and media present facts in accord with the appetite of the listener, not necessarily in accord with reality. Why would police or media make it up? Many reasons -but especially because sheeple will believe it and use their imaginations to fill in the missing details in accord with their beliefs and dogma. As explained by Osho Rajineesh, 'a mind that is filled with belief is a mind which can project anything according to that belief.' FUNKTIONARY explains, “belief” is any conclusion based on a fundamental assumption; the evidence of things not seen, no longer actively sought or belief is the psychological calm of imagined certitude safely beyond de-stabilizing doubt and troublesome reality-entanglement. [MORE]
INTERVIEW with Juan Alberto Vázquez From [HERE] There were dozens of people who witnessed the murder of Jordan Neely — but only one, freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vasquez, recorded it and uploaded it to Facebook. By doing so, he inadvertently placed himself at the center of an ongoing debate about what bystanders should do when witnessing a violent confrontation. Curbed spoke to Vasquez about what he saw that day and what he experienced and thought about in the aftermath.
Where were you headed on the subway?
I was on my way from Brooklyn to Yonkers. I had some interviews to do up there. Right at Broadway-Lafayette, where everything took place, is where I was going to switch trains to get on the 6 and go to Grand Central and head up to Yonkers.
So when did you first notice that something was going on?
Actually, something really curious happened. I’ve made that transfer at Lafayette various times, and I know the stairs to the 6 are on one end of the platform. But I get confused about whether I should be at the front or back of the F train to be closest. So, on this occasion, working off the idea that I should be at the front, I moved train cars at every stop to make my way there. But it turns out I was wrong — the stairs are closest at the back. If I’d gotten it right, I would’ve been at the back of the train and I wouldn’t have seen anything.
So then what happened?
We stopped at Second Ave., and I saw someone running toward the doors. The door was just about to close — three, five inches away from closing — when Jordan stuck his hand between them. Can you believe that? The irony. The irony that I’d mistakenly swapped cars and the irony that if he’d gotten there a single second later, the door would have closed and he wouldn’t have gotten in.
But he stopped the door from closing and he got on the train. And he stood in the middle of the train car, and then he started yelling that he didn’t have food, that he didn’t have water. From what I understood, he was yelling that he was tired, that he didn’t care about going to jail.
Was this when you began recording?
I tried to start filming from that moment, but I didn’t because I couldn’t see anything — it was too crowded. And then I heard him take off his jacket. He bundled it up and just threw it on the floor, very violently. You could hear the sound of the zipper hitting the floor. At that moment, when he threw the jacket, the people who were sitting around him stood up and moved away. He kept standing there and he kept yelling.
When did you see the man who restrained him?
It’s at that moment that this man came up behind him and grabbed him by the neck, and I think — I didn’t see, but I think — that move of grabbing him by the neck also led him to grab Neely by the legs with his own. They both fell. And then in like 30 seconds, I don’t know, we got to Broadway-Lafayette, and they were just there on the floor. You ask how many people out of 100 would have dared to do something like that, and I think that 98 will say: “No, I would wait to see one more sign that indicates aggression.”
What happened at the subway station?
When the two doors opened, everyone rushed out, obviously afraid, because now there was an actual fight. I got out, and I was watching them on the floor with this other man helping to hold Neely down. And then there’s just this confusion over what to do, all these people standing around on the platform, and some of them were yelling, “Call the police, call the police.” There were a couple of people who approached the blond guy, they say he’s a marine, and asked him, “What’s going on?” And he told them to call the police.
Obviously, the conductor had no idea what was going on. He was just going to close the doors and keep going. But there were people who stood between the doors and said, “No! Don’t close the doors!” I went over to the conductor too, and he was saying over the speaker, “Police, police!” But obviously there weren’t any police in the station. So I went back to where the scene was. And that’s when I started to film.
So the video you posted to Facebook started at this point.
I started to film from outside, through the window of the subway car, and then went back inside. They were just lying there. Then, when Jordan tried to escape again, they rolled over, and I could see his face and his attempts to escape. Then he wasn’t moving anymore, and we were all looking at each other, like, “What’s going on? Did he faint? What happened?” I got off the train, and I filmed another 30-second video where you can see it’s the F train. In that second video, you can see Neely is lying down and two guys are standing over him — the one who grabbed him and one other man. The second guy, he wanted to help. You can see in my first video that he never touches Jordan and never tries to restrain him; he is simply trying to listen to him and trying to tell the other one not to squeeze him so hard.
I had to leave and was walking toward the 6. And at that moment, I heard the patrol cars arriving. I didn’t stay when the police arrived.
What were you thinking about when you left?
I wanted to believe he had fainted. But I wasn’t going to get involved in trying to free him or trying to help him, because you don’t know at what point you’re going to get involved in something bigger.
Why do you think this situation escalated?
Jordan wasn’t asking for money. Jordan wasn’t asking for food. He was lamenting that he didn’t have any, he was lamenting that he was fed up, that he didn’t mind going to jail, and, up until that point, everything was fine. As far as I saw, he stood still and that encouraged people to stay calm, to stay in their place. When he raised his jacket, that’s when people panicked a little and those who were around him moved. But he didn’t move either. These people who were standing between us, that couple did not move at all. They were just standing, watching him. They stayed there as if to say: “Well, until we see that there is some kind of risk.” To me, when Jordan throws his jacket, it is a way of saying: “There could be an act of violence here,” because those things do happen all the time, because just a year ago, there was a guy who went in and shot a lot of people on the train. And obviously, the marine, in the end, went too far. But the police also went too far in not arriving on time.
This is a difficult question, and I don’t know if you can really answer it, but I’m just going to ask you. Lots of people feel like you could have done something. Do you feel that way now?
I am an immigrant — my wife got a visa almost six years ago, and we came here. I was a reporter at Milenio in Mexico for 20 years. So, for a year, I was here learning a little English, taking care of my children. I kind of became Mr. Mom. And eventually I started doing little freelance jobs. And look, as an immigrant, we are in a situation that sometimes ties us down. We do not have the same rights. People always advise that you not get involved. Why get involved in something that could cause problems with your immigration status? You know that here in the U.S., if you so much as miss a stop sign, it could become a reason to be deported or not granted a permit.
On the other hand, at some point in all this, I had the impulse to do something, whether to ask the other guy to let him go or whether to help Jordan escape or whether to say: “Let him go and between us, we can control him.” But, at some point I also got nervous, which is why I went in and out of the train car. And when I came back, I saw that there were two other people involved. Then I said to myself: “Well, let them help and let them try to resolve the matter.”
But I don’t regret it. I regret giving my name to the New York Post, because from then on, there was all this persecution by the media. I mean, I should have given them the interview but without my name. Now it’s too late. They already know who I am. People have even come and knocked on my door.
Ultimately, I wasn’t thinking that anybody was going to die. I can’t have regrets for something I didn’t know. [MORE]
